Horary astrology and the “dead or alive” question
February 2, 2009
There is a painful, terrible question I hope I never receive from a client. “What has become of her? Is she dead or alive?” Much like questions such as “how long will I live?”, these make me realize how very gentle we must be with our art and with the clients who hope to gain insight into circumstances they cannot control.
An astrologer in Colombia recently forwarded me his chart data for a missing person case in Spain and asked how I would read the chart. Not being very experienced with such matters, I went straight to Christian Astrology by William Lilly, hoping his instructions would give a clear answer, but to be honest, I’m not sure they helped. What do you think?
Is she alive or dead?
(Chart data: 28 January 2009, 12:16 pm EST, Pereira, Colombia)
The missing girl, a 17-year-old, was last seen by a friend who left her outside her house. Apparently she never made it inside. A neighbor reported hearing a scream that evening but did not investigate.
She is no relation to the querent, so she is represented by Mars as lord of the 7th house. Lilly says to give the missing person the Moon as well. We will need to turn the chart, looking at *her* eighth house, *her* fourth, and so on; but we will also need to look at these houses in the radical chart.
Reading Lilly’s directions and looking at this chart, I’m relieved to see that her planets are not in the house of death ( 8 ) or the house of endings (4). Yes, the Moon is still in her 4th, but is close enough to the next cusp that I would consider it to be in that house instead.
The bad news is that she, as Mars, has recently been in touch with death: Mercury rules her 8th house, and separates from conjunction with Mars. Either she has recently been in danger and has escaped, or she is already dead.
Her planet, Mars, is exalted. I don’t know whether that means she is well, or she is on her way to exaltation, that is, heaven.
So where is she? Her planet Mars is in her 3rd house: she may be at a neighbor’s house. Or, since it is a cadent house, she may be far from home. She is ruled by Saturn, so perhaps the neighbor is an old man. Saturn also rules her 4th house: again, this can stand for “the end of the matter,” her death. She may already be “underground,” buried. The Sun’s position exactly on her 4th house cusp suggests this as well.
What is the Moon, her co-ruler, doing? It has entered Pisces but it has 14+ degrees to travel before its first aspect: opposition to Saturn – which could represent the neighbor, or the end of her life. The long (symbolic) distance Moon has to travel before making an aspect suggests to me that it will be a long time indeed before anyone hears from her, alive or not.
I don’t think things look hopeful for her. What do you see?
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February 4, 2009 at 3:51 am
Hi Christine,
As far as I remember, according to Lilly’s CA (p151 “Whether One Absent be dead or alive”), in such questions, if the querent is not related to the quesited in any way, you should assign the 1st house, its ruler and the Moon to the missing person.
In this horary, the missing girl is signified by Venus, ruler of 1st house, and the Moon.
Both Venus and Moon are in the 11th house, and non of them aspected Jupiter, lord of the 8th. There’s no TOL either.
Venus has recently opposed Saturn L9-10 in the 5th house, and sextiled Mars, lord 7th and 12th, in the 9th.
You can easily read the rest of it in CA page 151 and conclude that, since both significators are in the fortunate 11th house, then most chances the missing person is alive. To see when she is found, you look at the number of degrees it would take to perfect a positive aspect between the Moon and lord of the Asc, or when lord of the Asc perfects a trine/Sextile with lord of the 11th (Jupiter).
So, judging by the chart and CA151, the missing person is indeed alive. Also, judging by the rest of the chart, it seems to me her relatives are not telling the whole truth about the matter. Maybe she had a quarrel with her mother or any authority figure and went away to hide in a friend’s house?
February 4, 2009 at 10:07 pm
It’s certainly a relief to read your take on events. Thank you for coming by to post it.
It raises a new mystery. Why would Lilly provide two sets of directions: the one you refer to that begins on page 151, and the one I refer to that begins on page 404? Because, in Chapter LXVII, he clearly says, “Give the first house and his lord for the significator of the querent; but for the party quesited, give the sign of that house he is signified by, the lord thereove and the Moon for his significators…” etc.
It is my suspicion that the “alive or dead” question can be asked in two ways: one in the sense of, “I haven’t heard from Joe in a while, and they haven’t invented Facebook yet; I wonder if he’s well?” The other in the sense of, “Joe has gone missing and I fear the worst has happened: alive or dead?” Lilly says on page 151 that “if a question be demanded of one absent in a general way” then this method should be used. I wonder if by “in a general way” he means “not having any particular reason to suspect the person’s death” ?
February 5, 2009 at 10:55 am
I also used 7 house ruler in this chart of Astrodienst forum and I was right:
http://forum.astro.com/cgi/forum.cgi?num=1225146860
February 5, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Hello, Goca – thank you for showing me this example. What a sad story. You’ve taught me something: I didn’t know the PoF could be so important for missing persons. Thank you.
February 5, 2009 at 1:35 pm
I also use POF(day formula) in every chart for lost items and from my experience it is better when it comes about direction.
February 6, 2009 at 5:54 am
Hi Christine,
I would suggest a different interpretation. If the querent does not know the missing person in preson, then the question is being asked “in a general way”, as in CA151, in which case you use the 1st house to signify the quesited.
If, on the other hand, the querent is an acquaintance of the missing person (as in the sad case Goca had described), then you use the 7th house for the quesited, unless the querent is related to the quesited in a way better described by another house.
Anyway, I have been seaching the web for news about the case in quetion and suggest you read the following link that has some further interesting information:
http://www.euroweeklynews.com/news/13979.html
Regards,
Naggie
February 15, 2009 at 1:51 am
Hi Christine,
I’ve just read the sad news about the missing girl. It seems you were right and I was wrong.
http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_20061.shtml
February 15, 2009 at 7:46 am
Hi, NP – That is very sad. Thank you for coming by to let me know. I didn’t really get it right, either; it’s the sort of thing one wishes there were no opportunities to practice with.
February 15, 2009 at 9:19 am
Finally, the most pessimistic omens have been completed and the news of the disappearance of the young Marta Castillo has finished in impotence, rages and pain, immense pain, when being known the sad reality: Miguel C. D., the 20 year-old youth that was their former sentimental couple and that from the disappearance it sustained that left it beside their house on nine thirty of the night of Saturday January 24, he has admitted before the National Police to have put an end to the youth’s life and, later on, to throw their body to the river Guadalquivir, concretely in an area of the riverside located under a traffic gangplank restricted between the descampado of the Puddle of the Pava and the town of Beds.
February 15, 2009 at 7:59 pm
It’s a very sad story indeed.
September 17, 2009 at 8:39 am
Hi Christine,
Im really surprised that people cant see it. Venus and Uranus together =Freedom or as I see it a desire to be free of whatever or whomever it is like most have said I dont see her as dead at all! I see that mars and pluto and mercury are very significant .I looked at the chart as not the relative asking the question but as the missing person herself with the missing person at the 1st house.With the lord of the 1st 5 degrees from Uranus with the moon as the co ruler and end of the matter I see in my opinion 2 things…
ist I believe she is near water moon in pisces neptune is in Aquarius unusual and far away or somewhere hidden…I see Pluto as the same as mars mars rules sex so does Pluto, Mars is exalted in capricorn it feels good there the north node and the sun are close along with jupiter which could mean…she is either happy to be by herself (the moon isnt in conjunction to any other planet.
She could very well be with a father type figure or a person of authority mars and pluto people need no introduction at the very worst jupiter could mean a large group of people…the very worst case is that she is at present a prostitute somwhere by water for distance near water look to The netherlands where prostitution is legal,where also girls are kidnapped and forced into that life and get used to it or wait till they can free themselves.
We dont know if the scream heard wasnt that of the person asking the question to make it sound more realistic and a form of cover up.
I dont see her as dead at all.
September 17, 2009 at 9:09 am
Perhaps you did not read the previous comments before posting yours. Sadly, her boyfriend confessed to killing her.
October 22, 2009 at 5:53 am
Hi Christine,
I enjoy your Post.
Before I have read replies and also that this man killed the girl, I have seen her in 7th house, ruler Pluto in 8th. In my head was death (it is always death, because I study that).
Why all of you look only Lilly and his rules? In his time were 7 planets and not 10 planets. If he would live today, he would also look all planets, like we do.
Regards,
Bobbie
October 22, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Hi, Bobbie, thanks for coming by. I’m glad you liked the post.
I use the traditional rulerships and the seven traditional planets because they work. And I don’t only look at Lilly and his rules.
You sound confident that Lilly would have used the outer planets. I disagree. Just because certain bodies are orbiting the Sun doesn’t mean they have a place in astrology.
November 5, 2009 at 9:35 am
Hi Christine,
Thank you for reply.
I mention outer planets because they mean a lot to me, personally. In Horary I have seen that some Astrologers use also Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.
What I see here: she is 7th house; her 8th is the 2nd. Ruler of her 2nd house is Mercury. Mercury is at 22 degrees of Capricorn: some Astrologers write that 22nd degree means, person is going to be killed. They think so, when the cusp of 8th is at 22 degrees. I am not sure about that, as I don’t have 22nd degree at all.
Bobbie