Among the aphorisms of Jerome Cardan is this piece of instruction to would-be astrologers:

He that would truly promote Art must insist as much on the confutation of false opinions delivered by others, as in the declaration of truth.

With that charge in mind, and realizing I’m preaching to the choir, I must say there are some statements out there in the astrology blogosphere that surely must raise doubts even in the minds of those who make them. This week I read a post by a woman who hopes to conceive with her new husband, but they’re timing their lovemaking carefully, because

we don’t want to conceive a child with Saturn retrograde, which would inevitably furnish our youngster with inferiority feelings resulting from a challenging or distant relationship with its father.*

Never mind the child’s inferiority feelings, what about poor Saturn’s feelings after reading a slur like that? It’s not Saturn’s fault a child has a difficult relationship with its father. Truly, the planets don’t stand in line like the good and the shunned fairies at the babe’s birth, waving wands and furnishing it with an inferiority complex and a parent who spends too much time at the office. The planets don’t cause anything, any more than the weatherman causes the weather.

And talk about your self-fulfilling prophecies. I can just see the scene in the maternity ward: “Don’t you want to hold the baby, George?” “What’s the use? He’s got Saturn retrograde, he probably hates me. See, he’s already crying.”

The novice astrology student can easily determine for herself whether the generalization she’s parroting about Saturn retrograde holds true. All it takes is a simple two-question poll, asked of as many people as she can round up. Question 1: what’s your birth date? (You don’t even need a time or place for this. Saturn is retrograde for more than four months of the year. Just look up the birth date in an ephemeris.) Question 2: True or false? “I had a difficult or distant relationship with my father.” Then see how the answers line up with Saturn’s direction for each person.

No one symbol in the chart means the same thing for all births. No one astrological combination is a jail sentence carved in stone.

* Paraphrased. The web is so easy to search, and my intention is to critique the astrology, not the writer.

18 Responses to “What Saturn retrograde does not mean”

  1. astrobarry Says:

    I’ve always found that particular example — Saturn rx = father issues — to be especially irksome. Seeing as Saturn is rx for a good chunk of each year, that’s a huge generalization.

    My understanding is that this idea stems from Noel Tyl, who has very hard-and-fast systematic rules for how astrology charts work, and who has had a large impact on the education of many a modern astrologer.


    • I think you’re right about Tyl’s influence – I know I attended at least one talk of his, years ago, where he gave *stage directions* for talking to clients about Saturn Rx. He advised that you break eye contact while you describe the Saturn Rx phenomenon: weak, absent, or overbearing father. And then resume eye contact, I suppose thereby inviting the client back into their own story… shrug.

      Reading between the lines (in books I no longer own so can’t cross-reference), I am pretty sure his daughter had Saturn Rx and he had a bit of an issue around that.

  2. Antonio Says:

    I have Saturn Rx, in a night-time nativity. The difficult, distant, absent, overbearing, etc. adjectives don’t apply to him or my relationship with him. So, there’s one refutation for the poll. :)


  3. Saw you question on Twitter Christine. I have indeed found that the majority of clients with Saturn Rx will say that their father was distant, either physically as in died early, divorce, (so moved out or away) or he worked so hard that he was hardly ever at home. Others have had fathers who were present but distant emotionally and ‘inaccesible’ to them.Some failed to provide proper structure (SA)to their lives due to emotional problems. The ‘level’ of love is not neccessarily affected just the ‘access’ to it.

  4. yuzuru Says:

    Hi, Christine

    Tom from skyscript said the following story:
    http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4327&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

    “I studied with Noel Tyl for a while. At this point I was seriously interested and kept it up for a couple of years, buying books, attending classes, lectures, joining a group etc. At some point maybe 10 years ago maybe longer I discovered traditional astrology and gave up modern “psychological” astrology for good.

    I think the tipping point was Tyl’s assertion that Saturn Rx in the chart was indicative of am absent, emotionally distant, or tyrannical father or father figure. I tried that out and everyone whose chart I read agreed. Boy did I think I was good. After a while I got suspicious. It was too good, so I tried an experiment. I used the same language with everyone whether they had Saturn Rx or not. Do you have to guess? Everyone still agreed. It seems virtually all of us experience our fathers as emotionally distant and authoritative. That’s the way most men are”


    • Hi, Yuzuru – that confirms what I suspected. These Saturn Rx descriptions *sound* precise and unique, but they’re vague enough that almost anyone can think of a time when Dad wasn’t there. Thanks for forwarding Tom’s story.

  5. yuzuru Says:

    Oh, just forgot to say in the last post:

    I have saturn retrograde in cancer, and I don“t feel that any of these things that were said were true in my relationship with my father.

    And I have saturn in the 4th house.

  6. Judy Says:

    Hi Christine:

    I have SA Rx in Aquarius in the 3rd house, ruling my Aquarius IC. Sure, my relationship with my dad had it’s ups and downs (whose doesn’t?), but in many ways I was very close to him. We were very similar in certain (but not always obvious) ways. Over time, I have come to realize what a good person my dad was during his life and how much he loved me. I agree that the “SA Rx=bad dad” formula is just stupid.
    Judy

  7. Joseph Says:

    “If you find the planets retrograde in a nativity in which the planets are strong, then he will be distressed, a coward. If it thus in a bad nativity, then his condition tends toward deterioration.” — Dorotheus

    Perhaps Saturn being RX is a good thing in my case, because by secondary progression, Saturn has gone back into Libra, his sign of exaltation.

    If we asked how many Sun opposite Saturn’s have issues with father, I am sure the # would be higher than merely retrograde; and of course, the RX cycles of a planet are based on its position relative to the Sun.

    Joseph


    • You raise so many interesting points in just a few words, Joseph. Just to choose one – that Sun opposite Saturn point would make for a good study. Think of all the variables… day or night birth, applying or separating opposition…. the mind boggles.


  8. Well, if ever there was a distant father-figure, and difficult to about non-existing relation with him, I had it! But… Saturn is quite direct (about 37 degrees ahead of the Sun) and smack on the ascendant.
    I guess then according to moderns, that is another misbehaving chart, lol.

  9. Erin O' Says:

    I liked this post, and the follow-up comments. Poor Saturn, indeed! And poor dads!

    Happy Father’s Day, Saturn!


  10. [...] On Ask Christine Astrology, Christine Davis tells us What Saturn Retrograde Does NOT Mean. [...]


Leave a Reply